Pakistan's interior minister Rehman Malik, who flown back on Sunday, thinks both the countries have moved much beyond merely sharing 'dossiers' on fugitives and key 26\11 accused. He says a lot of investigation has been done at Islamabad's end which could soon see conviction of the conspirators. During his short visit of less than 48 hours, he had not only ruffled many feathers by touching usual 'irritants' but also extended his wish-lists which he considers important for carrying forward friendly relationship. He wants India to do away with 'police reporting' clause in visa system. In an interview to TOI, he expressed his desire for a kind of relationship where citizens from both sides can even travel across the border (Wagah\Attari) in their private cars having smart cards and GPRS system to certain restricted areas.
Excerpts:
Q. Both the countries had signed the new visa agreement over three months ago. India was ready to implement it in October. What is the reason for this delay in implementing it from Pakistan's side? How will the liberalized visa system be beneficial?
A. Even we were eager to implement it quickly. I had to come (for the launch of the agreement) but I could not come earlier. Secondly, if you are going to implement certain agreement, you have to set up a mechanism for this. I wanted to approve registered travel agents under ITTA (International Travel and Tourist Agency) guidelines as I did not want to face the charge of favouring certain operators. All these took time. The new visa regime will increase people-to-people contact which is a prerequisite to remove misunderstandings.
Q. What other steps you think are important to facilitate more people-to-people contract and travel to each other's country?
A. As a next step, I have even suggested during meetings that we should even do away with the system of 'police reporting' clause in visa. I don't think it is important to carry on with such a system in this electronic age where tracking of each-other nationals through computerized immigration checking system has become much easier. There is a suggestion from my side that we should reach a point where citizens from both sides can even travel across the border (Wagah\Attari) in their private cars having smart (security) cards and GPRS system to certain restricted areas.
Q. Your remark that both the countries should forget the past and move on to bring an era of peace and friendship for future generations is appreciated but at the same time it also raises a question whether Pakistan only wants to forget 26\11 and Kargil. Why can't it move further back in the past and forget Kashmir and UN resolution on it?
A. We have to forget that India and Pakistan are enemies. We are converging on Kashmir. It is a part of composite dialogue between the two countries. We are not forgetting 26/11. I never said forget the incidents. I said forget feeling of animosity. Let's create an era of brightness. I have found great hope between people of both the countries. Incidents are happening because we were not every close.
Q. There doesn't appear to be any progress on the ground despite promises made by Pakistan on anti-terror measures. How can you expect progress in other fields?
A. How many things have happened after Bombay blasts (Mumbai terror attack)? Whenever India has said it suspected some area we have searched and even shared information. Intelligence to intelligence, ministry to ministry, government to government...everybody is interacting. With interaction comes friendship. All incidents that are happening can be averted with friendship. You are spending millions we are spending millions (on security). We have to fight poverty and extremism. At government level, we have done many things. Now people-to people contact will clear misunderstandings. We have created a situation for this now.
Q. People keep hearing about dossier on Hafiz Saeed (LeT chief and one of the key 26\11 conspirators). Pakistan appears to be reluctant to get to the bottom of the conspiracy behind the terror attack specifically when all evidence are there on Pakistani soil. Why there is no progress?
A. We have move quite a far from dossier. We have done investigation which even your agencies have appreciated. We have done the investigation and submitted it to our Court where the trial is going on. The Court had formed the Judicial Commission. I have to follow my Court. My Court says until and unless and I repeat until and unless the witnesses are cross-examined they cannot proceed further. I can say with certainty that the trial would have been completed by now if the Judicial Commission from Pakistan had been allowed to cross-examine the four crucial Indian witnesses in the Mumbai attack case when it had visited India (in March, 2012). With the Indian government agreeing to let in the Commission visit Mumbai and cross-examine the witnesses "very soon", the trial in Pakistan (of Lashkar commander Zaki-ur-Rahman Lakhvi and six other accused) would be concluded swiftly.
Q. You must have discussed these issues when you met Indian delegation here. Would you please spell out those details?
A. I have discussed many things and raised certain issues. I told them that India should share all the details of investigation done at its end...Abu Jundal (who had coordinated the Mumbai terror strikes of Ajmal Kasab and nine other Laskhar terrorists from the Karachi control room) is an Indian. We are also curious as to how he and others landed in Pakistan. He was a known criminal. He worked as a source of an Indian intelligence agency. I am not saying this. He himself has said so. I have seen records...We have to figure out all these...whether non-state actors from the two sides are acting at the instance of a third power. You are aware that things had taken an alarming turn, with both countries massing their troops on the border. Things would have been worse if the leadership on both sides had not shown maturity.
Q. You remarks on Babri Masjid drew lot of attention. A cross-section of people thinks you shouldn't have raised India's internal matter. Your remarks mentioning 9\11, 26\11, Samjhauta Express blasts and Babri Masjid demolition issue in the same breath created unease even among those who are strongly advocating for peace between the two countries. What you have to say about this?
A. There is no comparison, whatsoever, between Babri mosque demolition and 26/11 attacks. Babri mosque was actually ethnic. It was a sectarian strife... It should not be taken in a negative way. I have no intention to interfere in the inter-faith matter. Pakistan itself is a victim of inter-faith clashes, sectarian strife. There have been Shia-Sunni clashes in Pakistan. My intention was not to create confusion but sound caution to the both countries. I am not a kind of person who would interfere in somebody's religion or inter-faith matters but a person who goes out and leads on issues of communal harmony. So, I said like the incidents of 9/11, people dying in Quetta, our Shia and Sunni people are being killed in Karachi. I (had) also said incidents like Mumbai blasts, Babri Masjid case, I am repeating it here and please do not take it in a negative way, we do not want that these things should happen in any region of India and Pakistan. Religious violence often leads to extremism and every efforts should be made to check it.
We have to forget that India and Pakistan are enemies. We are not forgetting 26/11: Rehman Malik
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We have to forget that India and Pakistan are enemies. We are not forgetting 26/11: Rehman Malik
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We have to forget that India and Pakistan are enemies. We are not forgetting 26/11: Rehman Malik
